How many attacks on a charge?

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skyscraper
skyscraper's picture
How many attacks on a charge?

I have a question regarding charging and making an attack at the end of a charge.

It is related to Shinsek's recent question in the SKT thread that might have gone unnoticed since it appears further down the "news" page.

Charge is defined as follows:

Quote:
Charge
Replaces Attack Action: A charge is a power that a creature uses as an attack action on its turn.
Move and Attack: The creature moves a number of squares up to its current speed, then makes a basic melee attack against an adjacent target.
+1 Bonus to the Attack Roll: A creature that charges has a +1 bonus to the attack it makes as part of the action.
(...)

So, a Charge is an attack action. No problem there.

It allows a creature to make "a basic melee attack" (from the move and attack section cited above) and gets a "+1 bonus to the attack (from the +1 bonus to the attack roll section cited above). The use of "attack" instead of "attack action, and the use of the singular for "attack", in these two definition sections, suggests to me that the creature can only make one basic melee attack, notwithstanding whether its Basic Melee Attack attack action allows two or more attacks.

Now, in past discussions on this board relating to powers that grant "an attack", it was clear that those powers did not grant "an attack action" and as such, where one would want to use such a power on an attack action that allows multiple attacks, still only one of those attacks was actually granted by the power. For instance, the Sorcerer on Black Dragon's Mounted Spellcasting power comes to mind.

I've long played that Charge actually allowed multiple attacks from Basic Melee Attack attack actions that includes multiple attacks, until I was led to believe the opposite due to such discussions. For some time now, I've played that Charge only allows a single attack, even if the creature's Basic Melee Attack attack action includes multiple attacks.

So, do the Drow Scout and the Cloud Giant Captain, for example, get two attacks from their Basic Melee Attack attack action on a charge, or just one attack?

Ira's comment in the SKT thread suggests that the Cloud Giant Captain gets two, but to me this is inconsistent with the multiple rulings on powers that grant "an attack" that are limited to a single attack even when an attack action grants more than one attack.

Of course, powers such as Pounce from the Hunting Cougar, would allow two attacks since the card text then explicitly states that the creature can make two Basic Melee Attack attacks when charging. My question targets Basic Melee Attack attack actions that do not explicitly mention charging, and that allow more than one attack.

tried
tried's picture

In revised edition - if the basic allows 2, the charge permits 2, because of the confused way the system defines basic attacks (ie., it is inferred that it means basic attack power).

V3 should clean all this up.

__________________

Guildmaster Head of Organized Play

skyscraper
skyscraper's picture

Ok, thanks for clarifying this.

Am I correct that in v3 a Charge will only allow one attack even if the Basic Melee Attack attack action allows more than one attack? If so I'll simply continue using that rule.

Laurian
Laurian's picture

So I suppose that in V3 Hunting Cougars Pounce will still grant 2 attacks on a Charge ?

skyscraper
skyscraper's picture

Laurian: in V3 Alpha that was published, the Exception-based rule is carried over from V2, wherein permissive card text allows an action to overide the base rule that would say otherwise.

So the double attacks by the Pounce Power that allows two Basic Melee Attack on a charge would still be allowed even if a single attack only were permitted by a Charge as the default rule.

Shinsek
Shinsek's picture

and, in relation to my question http://ddmguild.org/?q=content/thunder#comment-11736 (could anyone answer? Shock )

or at least, what about attack of opportunities?

According to V2 rules "An opportunity attack is a basic attack against an adjacent enemy taken as a free action."...

So if my basic attack allows 2 attacks, an opportunity allows me to do 2 attacks? O_o According to Skyscreaper's explaination above, I suppose not...?

it would not have been easier to give the creature a Melee Attack double attack (and not Basic Melee Attack ?) , just similar to the Eye of Gruumsh?

skyscraper
skyscraper's picture

Shinsek: my above explanation was wrong. But, this rule in v2 is a bit confusing.

Tried mentions that in v3 this rule will be sorted out. I assume this means that a single "attack" will be allowed by charge and OAs.

But for now, per Tried's response, according to the V2 rules, if the creature has two attacks in his Basic Melee Attack action, he can do two, both in charge and in OAs.

Me: I'll continue to implement as a houserule what will be the upcoming v3 rule (as far as I understand) that OAs and Charge only allow a single attack even if the Basic Melee Attack allows 2 or more.